Episode #14 - Discovering Security on the Front Line

Welcome to this special episode of The Facilities Management Exchange in partnership with the City Security Council

In this episode, we’re joined by three rising professionals from across the security industry for an honest and insightful conversation around ambition, progression, pay, apprenticeships, leadership and the future of security careers in the UK.

From overcoming imposter syndrome and fleeing adversity to building careers through relentless hard work and sacrifice, this episode shines a light on the real people behind the industry — and the challenges facing the next generation coming into security.

This is a raw, inspiring and thought-provoking discussion exploring career growth, confidence, opportunity, workplace culture and what it truly takes to progress in one of the UK’s most demanding sectors.

In this episode expect:

• The biggest challenges each guest has faced in their career so far
• Why stepping outside your comfort zone is essential for growth
• How every role helps “polish your skills” and shape your career path
• A discussion on ambition, drive and whether everyone actually wants career success
• The realities of pay, wage growth and the increasing pressure businesses are under
• Why the government needs to do more to support businesses and employers
• A huge conversation around apprenticeships — and why removing them could damage the future of the industry
• Advice for anyone feeling suppressed or stuck in their current role

This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone working in security, facilities management or leadership — especially those looking to build a long-term career and create opportunities for the next generation entering the industry.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

But then you see the the thing is that uh the only person that can stop you from progressing is you. There is nobody else out there that will ever stop you.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Hi guys, Mark Robinson here, host of the Facilities Management Exchange. We've just recorded a fantastic new episode in collaboration with the City Security Council. What's the most challenging thing you've experienced in your role?

SPEAKER_04 0:25

You've got to be willing to make some sacrifices because when I was doing shift work, I was probably clocking um 55-60 hours a week.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

We were joined today by representatives of Lodge Security, CIS Security, and Friends of the Show SmartSec Solutions. We talk about everything security specific, but in an even better way, we deal with multiple roles across the industry. There's news coming out recently that apprenticeships are looking to be stopped by the government.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

It's devastating, I'll put it that way, because a lot of people can benefit from that.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

If they see that there is anything like apprenticeship, they'll be willing to join.

SPEAKER_07 1:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

With a firm belief that uh they'll progress.

SPEAKER_05 1:08

We've been joined by a security manager, a security area manager, and also a security relief officer who give all of their insights and share their experiences of the industry. Be sure not to miss this one. Make sure that you tune in. It's a banger. Thanks, guys. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, welcome to another episode of the Facilities Management Exchange. But this is actually a very different episode of the Facilities Management Exchange. This week we're actually partnering with the City Security Council to actually focus in on specific roles across the security industry to really delve into what it takes to be a security officer, an area manager, a site manager within this environment on a daily basis. So I'm really, really pleased today to be joined by three fantastic guests that have operated in the security industry over many, many years. I'm gonna let them introduce themselves rather than me do it. So over to you. Tell me your name, who do you represent, and where are you from?

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Thank you, Mike. Um I'm Sheku Jane, I'm from Lodge Security, I'm an area manager. Lovely to have you, Sheku. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Hi, my name is Sigita. I am from CIS Security, a security manager.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Hi, Segita. Lovely to have you. Oh, my name is uh Mohamed Bashir, and uh I'm from Smartsek Solution, and uh my role is a security officer.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

Oh, fantastic. We've had a few um people on the show from Smartsec actually. Your illustrious leader, Helmy Elisad. Yes, he's a great guy, and also David Taylor, he's been on as well. You know Helmy, he's a good lad, isn't he? Very well, yeah, he's a good friend of the show. Good friend of the show, yeah. Have you all had a very nice day? Yeah, it's been pretty good for me. Yeah, have you all been working today or of course.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yes, that's a priority.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

A priority. Interestingly, I I was on annual leave, my leave finished tomorrow. Oh, no way. So I thought you were drafting. That I decided to come in so it's good anyway.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Oh well, thank you very much, Sheku. Really appreciate it. That's really good of you. So um, look, we'll get straight into it. We're gonna talk about everything security today, but we really want to focus in on um how your careers have developed within the space, um, what you've learned during that period, um, what you may well do differently. We'll talk a little bit about apprenticeships because obviously there's changes in that legislation that's taking place at the minute, how you've benefited from apprentices, uh apprenticeships, and how maybe them be declining isn't a good thing for the industry. Um, but we'll also talk about lots of other things as well. So let's start with a really interesting one. What's the most challenging thing you've experienced in your role? Let's go with you, Segita first.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Most challenging thing. Well, the thing is that I'm a person who loves challenges, right? So I cannot uh really rate the most challenging thing. Yeah, because I have to say I believe about challenge and growth. Right. So if you don't face the challenge, you don't put yourself out of the comfort zone, yeah. Uh you limit yourself to to stay where you are.

SPEAKER_08 4:26

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

So I believe that my career is a reflection of that. Um I started in a security industry as a security officer.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

And actually, even how I started, because at that time I just went, which are the top security companies?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Yes, and I saw was G4S and Securitas, that was like 15 years ago. Yeah. And I was like able to work only for those two companies.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Ah, so you actually had a very specific, exactly. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

So and I think I spent about nine months applying for every single position.

SPEAKER_05 5:05

So it actually took you quite a period of time to get in there as well. Exactly, yes. Oh yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

But uh but at the end, uh Securites invited me for an interview and I got my first security job as a response security officer.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

Ah, so you were on mobile response then?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:19

Ah, right, okay. How did you find that? Because that's that's a different animal, isn't it, to be fair?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

It is, but I enjoyed it because it showed me security from many different perspectives. Yep. Um, because I would work for the blue chip companies, uh, going covering holiday covers. Yeah. And uh I took it as a challenge of going to every single site and learning as much as possible. Yeah. Just not to limit to myself that I am here just to cover a shift.

SPEAKER_08 5:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, I I wanted to know everything so I feel uh like I get the taste of everything. Yes, yes, uh, and this um adds to my experience. Yeah, so yeah, so that's what I did for one year and a half. Uh from there I felt, well, this challenge now finished, I need the other one.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

Yeah, so you made it into something different.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yes, then I uh I went to work um as a security receptionist, right? Uh um and uh that's also a great experience. Then I had my eyes on something else in one year and a half, then I went to work uh as operation support, uh so rostering officers uh in the head office. Um and I used to roster about um 400, 300 officers, 54 sites. So yeah, that was so once I yeah, so what's I it is, and then since I got a hang of it, yeah, uh then I thought okay, I need the next thing. And the next thing was I want to be operations manager.

SPEAKER_08 6:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

And I started to work for reception security division, and um uh and yeah, and then suddenly we started to expand. I started to travel nationally. Wow, then as well, I got offered to deliver the training, and I was like, training, me, training? I was like, why not? Yeah, I can learn it. Yeah, uh so uh then um I I thought I will master this, yeah. Uh and then the next challenge uh was I went to work at the National Gallery, which was an amazing place as well.

SPEAKER_08 7:18

Yeah, I bet it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Uh and uh learned a lot over there, and then once I had enough of that challenge, then I went to join CIS security.

SPEAKER_08 7:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Um, as I heard a very good feedback about it, because for me, as a person, it's very important values, yeah, yeah, uh, and what each company represents, and CES was the company that represented like very deep values, and uh and they really were passionate, still are passionate of what they are doing. And I started to work at London So Bank University, uh, worked there for a bit, and I went to work as um um accounts manager, right? Uh, looking after front of house and security sites. Yeah, uh, but then I felt well, you know, this journey, like I took it as uh every stage or every version of myself that was there, like it was a necessary step for the growth. Yeah, because in every single place you learn something, you uh you meet different people, and uh you polish your skills, you find what you like, what you don't like.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

So you face the challenges, you put yourself out of the comfort zone so you can grow.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

Yeah, yeah. And uh you you seem to be quite driven by like you see something you want and then you just go for it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_05 8:35

And you know, security, it it's it's kind of perceived as a male industry, isn't it? It's perceived as male dominated, there's far more men in it, you don't see a lot of women, which we know isn't true because there is an awful lot of women that operate in the space. How have you found being a woman within that industry that's got that reputation for being male dominated, I suppose is the best way to explain it.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

How do I find it? I well, it came with both sides and came with blessings, and obviously it came with its own challenges.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

Yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Um but I believe that those challenges were like more internal challenges because we put ourselves the blockages of what we want to achieve, isn't it? Uh so for me uh was more internal work to feel like because to be in the room where we have ex-police or ex-army, yeah, and I'm just the person who just worked my way up and try different things, and then uh you are in a meeting with them, and then you you'd sort of feel a little bit like, oh, what I have to offer, is that enough? Yeah, because I don't have that background. Yeah, so I think it was a lot of internal work in terms of feel confident in it, yeah, and that my knowledge is different than them as well.

SPEAKER_05 9:46

I mean, that's the great thing about the industry, isn't it? It's a very diverse industry with lots of different characters that come from different places and different spaces, yeah, yeah. Um, and everybody learns something different from everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

So exactly, you know, so you take that opportunity, yeah. You take that opportunity to learn, to experience and uh um and also to meet a lot of wonderful people.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, I've I worked in the skewing industry, as I told you before, and I've worked with some absolutely fantastic um female professionals in the space that you know that I've learned so much from. So, you know, I think it's great that it's still an area that promotes women internally and that women feel comfortable operating in. And I think it should never lose that.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

I think that's and I think we need more women as well. I agree in the industry because it's far more sensible than us, too. It brings a balance. It's true, it's true.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, kind of John said as a woman. Yeah, you know, like you rightly said, Mark, you know, this industry predominantly you have male. Yeah, you hardly see women there. You have few who are passionate, like just like her.

SPEAKER_07 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

But you, I mean, the challenge she took up to this stage, yeah, it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 10:55

Yeah, I love the fact as well that you just want to write they're the biggest I want to work on.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Well, that's how we do it. Like she rightly said, you meet a mixed show of people from different backgrounds, yeah. And so and the challenge here is you have so many challenges in the sense that you meet people who probably, when you look at their attitude, I will not say it stinks, but no, it is really appalling. Well, some people do, like the world you say I'll suppress it because I'm going for something and then I must achieve it. Yeah, and then I admire your goal.

SPEAKER_05 11:27

But that's the great thing, though, isn't it? That I mean that you you do get everybody has different wants, needs, and desires, don't they? You know, we all we all want to travel at a pace which is acceptable to us, and you're gonna get people that travel very fast and you're gonna get people that's that go a little bit slower. You know, that's just the nature of the beast. So, Mohammed, tell us a little bit about your journey in the industry. How did you start in security? How long have you operated in it? What have you learned? What have you not learned?

SPEAKER_02 11:51

I'll be honest with you, my journey in this industry over uh I would say over 15 years now. Uh so you're a lifer then, Mohammed. Is that what you're telling me? To me, it has been like constant learning, yeah, adaptability, and uh shared responsibility, shared commitment, and shared objectives and goals.

SPEAKER_07 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

You know, and uh one thing I've learned within these 15 years I've been in the industry. Initially, when I joined the industry, I was saying to myself, I'm just going to do this just for me to earn some living. Yeah. After two years. A lot of people do that, Mohammed. After two years and then I will quit. That's absolutely true. I'm telling you, that was my intention initially. Because remember, Mark, before joining this industry, way back home, I used to be a teacher. Did you? Yeah, I taught for more than five years. Really? Yes. What did you teach out in general? Uh moral education. Really? Yes. Okay. And then yes. And then I left when war broke into my country, which is Soraleon. And I left, yes. I had to flee to the Gambia. I also taught there for more than four years. Yeah. And I made my way to the UK. Really? Even when I came to the UK, remember I came with a student visa.

SPEAKER_06 13:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

And your work is limited to 20 hours per week. Right. Which is not enough. No, it's not too early income, especially down in especially in London. I'm telling you, yeah. Uh this was all the way in Midlands, Birmingham.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

Oh, Birmingham.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yes, I used to live there.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

And so it's not cheap there either, though, Maham. To be fair, yeah, but it's better, it's better.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

In terms of cost of living, rent, and everything, it's really relatively cheaper. Yeah. I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_05 13:41

I don't know about now though.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

No, I'm telling you, Ma, because I remember when I was there, yeah, you can get a two-bedroom flat for 400 pounds. Oh, nice. Yeah, you can't even pay where I'm living, Southeast here. You can't even get a single room. No, you can't. Maybe a box room for even 600 pounds. Agreed. Or a camera. I'm telling you. Or anything. Yes. It's just a box room for more than 600 pounds. Yeah. So you see different experience, different place, different experience. Uh so when I came, uh I was working in the care industry, looking after old people working in mental home, which is also a challenging field. My wife does that, and that's that that's that's a hard job. Working with people with schizophrenia, people with dementia, you name it. Yeah. People with diabetes, all this. Yeah. And so it came to a time, but then I was just trying to consolidate my stay in this country.

SPEAKER_07 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

In a way. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, I have a friend of mine who says, you know what? You are too intelligent. He said the longer you stay in the mental home, there is every likelihood that you would have a mental issue. But you might catch up.

SPEAKER_05 14:56

I got a new man. I get you, I get the still stippling on my head. We become the environment that we spend the most time in to live in there, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Because the time you spent, yeah, yeah, all day long. Sometimes I'll stretch myself from seven till seven, yeah, and they will ask me if I want to stay till ten. By the time I go home, yeah, because it's a dreadful shift. Oh, of course, yeah. Seven till ten at night. That's very dreadful. That's a long shift. Yeah. So eventually, when my friend asked me, he said, you know what? Come into the field, the industry, it's better for you. Yeah. Because it's a decent job and you can dress needs. Yeah. And you know, you like to come out in a very neat way. Yes. I said, really, it doesn't make sense. Okay. And so eventually, they used to have a company here called I've forgotten the name anyway. There's been a few that are. And so I said, okay, let me I jump into this thing just three months, and then uh somebody showed me said, you know, we'll go to VSG. Yeah, they pay well. Yeah. This is a very small company, but if you go there, they will pay well. And there is there is every tendency that you can able to progress to a certain level. I said, alright. So uh my first interview was around South South Bank, right? Yes. By a guy called Tom Walsh. Right. I think Tom Walsh, yes. I was interviewed, and so I got the job anyway. I used to work somewhere around Green Park here. Oh yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they moved me from Green Park, they sent me to Piccadilly. Right. So I was there. Like she rightly said, you know, when you joined the industry, like I said before, I came with the intention that I would just do two years.

SPEAKER_07 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

But no sooner I entered the industry, time flies so quick. It does, yeah. I'm telling you. And so by the time I know it, my plans are still not met. And so, you know what, I need to extend another two years, maybe. And so I met different people from different backgrounds, different challenges in a way. Sometimes you go to a place. Uh one thing with this industry that is so unique to me, and that I I always enjoy in this industry is they don't care who you are. No. When you come, you work as a team, you all work on the same level.

SPEAKER_07 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:23

We will get back to that because that's a very interesting thing. But Sheku, let's hear a little bit about you, my man. Let's let's hear about your career in the industry, area manager at the minute with Lodge Security. How did you get started? Like, and have you experienced anything similar to Mohammed? Because he's had he's had a rough time, by the sounds of it.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

Um it's an incredible story, by the way. Um, but it's a bit the same with the start. I wanted I'd got into security not to stay there, yeah, just to make quick box and move on to something else. But when I started, I started as um doing stuff at Dom and Pubs and clubs, so I didn't like it to be honest. Uh that's a that's a tough job though, yeah. If I can tell you, the the last one I did was the Eurofinal, was it in 2020? Eurofinal, England, Spain. On that day, I got spilled alcohol drinks away.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

Were you in Wembley then?

SPEAKER_04 18:11

No, not Wembley, a pub.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

That's because that's where they broke into it. Is it that one they broke into Wembley?

SPEAKER_04 18:15

No, not that that was at Sid Copper, that's just the one I went to. Right, okay. Yeah, so I started doing that, did a few of them, I didn't like it, and needed something um I needed a career part.

SPEAKER_07 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

So I wanted something more structured in a professional environment. Yeah, yeah. And I started talking to friends, I started asking people, and I came across large security that was a vacant there, right? Decided to apply.

SPEAKER_06 18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

And I did apply. Fortunately, I got the job, went for an interview, did an induction, so you got the job, started security officer, started working at a BP. Oh, a BP. First job then was a BP Lee, start as lost prevention officer. Right. Yeah, did that for a few months, and I moved to a different site.

SPEAKER_05 18:50

So you can't you started in retail then? Yeah, retail. Retail's a tough gig as well, isn't it? Well, that is the toughest gig. It's a tough gig.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

I think retail is a toughest security gig, yeah. I think so. So start doing that for a few months, and I think uh one of the things that helped me a lot was do I present myself. Like ways that I like to dress nice, like to look clean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, wear nice shoes, clean shoes, I would say. And every time an area manager, I'll visit the sites, got good reviews, got good feedback from the store and everything. So you start getting my attention, start talking to me what you want to do and stuff like that. Have you got a driver's license? At the time, I didn't have a driver's license. I said, no, I've done my theory and I'm gonna do my practical in two months' time or so. Yeah, yeah. And said, once you do that, let me know. I said, okay, once I did it, got past first time. So I spoke to him, I said, I've got this now. Said, he's gonna need some help. I said, okay, I'm happy to do it. At the time, I just wanted to put myself out there for him to know that I'm willing to progress in the career.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

And um invited me to help him out to do a few visits with him to distribute uniform and stuff like that. Yeah, you're happy to do it. I said, I'm I'm quite happy to do it.

SPEAKER_06 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

And um doing public transport at the time, taking the train and the buses, it was difficult. Oh, but really, you were you were he was driving anyway, but I had to do public transport. I was I was like, I was like, okay, I'm happy to do it.

SPEAKER_05 20:07

Oh, I played it, you know.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

Yeah, so I did that for a couple of weeks and then needed a supervisor at um Marblech Street Team. Yeah, the street warding.

SPEAKER_06 20:15

Ah, yes, yeah, I know the Marulach team.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Yeah, so he introduced me to his own manager, the regional manager at the time, and um said that you're happy to do it, said I'm happy to do it, and start doing that, did well in the job, and um it became a vacancy for area support manager. Right. I was put forward to it and interviewed for the job, and um, I got the job, area support manager.

SPEAKER_08 20:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

So at the time I was doing part-time area support manager and doing straight warding. Yeah, and some days I'll cover security shifts. I was happy to do everything at the time.

SPEAKER_07 20:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:45

And um we did that for a few months. Um November November 2024. Um, he went on holiday and need to cover for him. That was that was that was the breaking point for me.

SPEAKER_07 20:57

Was it?

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Yeah, so he went for two weeks. I did cover for him, yeah, and I did well.

unknown 21:01

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

Because I attended a few meetings and was like, Who is this? Shak or teens assistant.

SPEAKER_07 21:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

And um, I was like, okay, what are you doing? I explained what I'm doing, and I was doing a few visits, visiting clients and everything. So when he came back, they gave him a feedback and um he was happy with what I did.

SPEAKER_07 21:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

So I think that's what that was the time that he knew I can do the job.

SPEAKER_07 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

So they introduced me to um an apprenticeship, yeah, which um this first line security manager, level three. Okay. So I started doing that. I've been doing that since um November 2024. Right. Sorry, November 2025. Yeah. That's when I started doing it. And since I've been doing that, I've been progressing in the in the in the field, and I'm so happy for what I'm doing at the moment. Fantastic. Yeah, I've I've looked after um Lidl and when they're looking after Boots. Are you right? I've got forty nine sites that I visit.

SPEAKER_05 21:49

And how many officers do you manage at the minute? At the moment I've got eighty two officers. Wow. So it's a lot. Yeah, that is a lot. But do you do you know what? That that's a terrific example of you just grabbing an opportunity. And just going, right, I want this opportunity to be mine. I want to do well. So I'm going to try and impress the people that I line into. I'm going to do a good job when that opportunity presents itself. And then look, you know, where you are now.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

To be fair, I think you've got to be willing to make some sacrifices because when I was doing shift work, I was probably clocking um 55, 60 hours a week. So when I start doing area support manager, it goes down to 40 hours a week.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

So getting the same pay for 40 hours, sacrificing 20 hours. Yeah. I had to do that at the time because he was like, okay, now obviously you're going to make the sacrifice. Are you willing to do it? I say I'm willing to do it because I was looking at where I was where my career was going. And I saw that's an opportunity that is very rare. Because when I came into the industry, I speak to people. You've got people that have been there for like 10 years, 20 years, they're doing the same thing. And I don't want to be doing that. So I just felt like at that moment that is the sacrifice I needed to do to get to where I'm going.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

And I did it, and I'm so happy that's the best decision I made at the time.

SPEAKER_05 23:01

Yeah, without doubt. But I think that that's the key, you know. Um, and it goes back to what everybody so far has said, like around the panel. You know, um, you've got to where you've got to because you had the drive and ambition to do that. But it's also important to understand that not everybody has that drive. Some people are just happy going to do their four-on, four-off, spend time with the family, and so on and so forth. But the reality is the industry needs a mixture of both. Yeah, you know, you need that individual that's going like a sheku, you know, that's it, I want it, I'm gonna go for it. And and I'm not gonna stop until I get what I want. Like yourself, you know, doing exactly the same thing. I want to work for the biggest security company in the UK. And I, if it takes me nine months, I'm gonna do it, you know. Or yourself, Mohammed, you know, you started as a teacher over in Sierra Leone and came to the UK, and for whatever reason, you're still a security guy, you know. But that's the great thing about the industry. You can find something beneficial or that suits your skill set and your narrative and so on and so forth. But I think that that's really um really interesting, you know, and such different stories as well. Um but really the random thing about each of your stories is that you each of you kind of fell into it, um, but you found this great career um as a direct result, which I think is brilliant. I wanted to touch on something you said earlier as well, Mohammed, about um, and and obviously yourself as well, about different companies that you've worked for. Yeah, because sometimes I I think it's the same as people, you know. Um certain certain companies are good fits for you as an individual, other companies aren't necessarily a good fit for you as an individual. Same as we like some people, we don't like others, you know. It's it's it's like a personal what fits, what doesn't fit, and things like that. And I think sometimes you've got to move around sometimes to find what fits, you know, and then when you find what fits, um you can take it from there. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Or am I talking absolute blind? No, that's right. No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

That's right. Yeah, but like you rightly said, uh, you work with certain industries, uh, I mean, company, you will find out that the the standard is the same, the code is the same, but sometimes the wages are different. Yeah, and this is what is driving people not to say I'm doing the same job, and the next man in securitas is doing the same job, but the species are in this. You know what? I need to find somebody who is there so that I will switch over. Yeah, and this is uh because it's all about money. Yeah, people are looking for lucrative salary, yeah. Of course they're doing it. Because if you don't have lucrative salary and you stay stuck and probably increment the whole of the year is just 50p, you begin to think, wow, the cost of living is getting high. Yeah, I can't continue to be in this. And then again, moving from one job to another is another hassle.

SPEAKER_05 25:43

Yeah, it's a challenge. That's a challenge as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 25:46

It's a big challenge.

SPEAKER_05 25:47

Yeah, I think we should we should chat a bit about pay rates, you know, because I think pay rates are important. Um in my day job, I I come across it all the time. So, you know, the London Living Wage is a very, very big thing. So I'd I'd love to hear it from your guys' viewpoint, actually. Um, the business that I work for, um, we're a recognised London living wage provider. We always try and push the living wage more if we can, because it means that we can attract and and retain the best people. Um, but from a from a boots on the ground perspective, what do you guys think about things and initiatives like the Living Wage Foundation and pay rates as they are at the minute? Do you think that something should be done about pay rates to bring them further up, or do you think enough is being done at the minute? Because we have seen some significant increases over the last three years in terms of minimum wage, real living wage. Is that is that is that is that right at the moment, or does more need to be done across the industry, government, and so on and so forth?

SPEAKER_02 26:43

I believe Matt to me is right, but more needs to be done. Right. Because considering the cost of living and the inflation that we're facing day in, day out, I mean, let's consider the London living wage. Right? And think of uh the cost of uh oyster card for you to travel back and forth on a train, jump on a train and then back and forth. Before you know it, at the end of the month, you spend more than nothing less than 200 pounds, nothing. And it depends on the zone where you are.

SPEAKER_05 27:14

Yeah, it does, yeah. That's very true.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yeah, yeah, it depends on the zone. And uh therefore, whatever, more needs to be done in a way. Because you uh I imagine when I came to this country, if I go to Tesco, I'll get bread for just for just 30p, yeah, 32p and 40p. Yeah, now you can go there for a bread, you buy it more than two pounds if you want to get uh proper one. Yeah, I'm telling you, yeah. You pay for it more than and so if they are giving you just London living wage and you have a family to look after, yeah, you have to put on the table because the thing is though, but I get what you're saying, but employers can only do so much, can't they?

SPEAKER_05 27:56

Because like the they work to budgets, they work to what they can and can't do, and they have to invest in certain areas of the business. Like the my my view on this is it it's really something about government and inflation and interest rates and what's being done in the background to support businesses to make sure that those businesses can pay good salaries. Because if you're hammering businesses with corporation tax, with over-regulation and so on and so forth, it becomes far more difficult for a business to say, right, you know, I would love to pay every single one of my security officers, I'd love to pay every single cleaning operative that works for my business £25 an hour. Love to, absolutely love to. But the reality is the economic pressures that a business like ours experiences because of legislation, local government, and things like that, that becomes very, very difficult. Um, but I would love to do it, you know, because I think everybody should get fair wealth.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

And I and I know from a business perspective, I know you would love to do it, but you think, how can I make a profit? And the aim of fuel as a businessman is to maximize profit. Yeah. It's not just to stay there and you see you're running a business with no profit.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

That's no business. See, I've met, and and I truly believe and I've met business owners across our industry, across, you know, across obviously as I said, cleaning, but security, facilities management, and things like that. You know, and there's so many owners of businesses in our space. Um, and and and whilst they want to make a profit, yeah, of course they do. It's more about making sure that um that the business is able to provide livings for the people that work within the business. Um, like one of our owners, he he says something quite pertinent sometimes. He says to us, he says, Yeah, I'm so so proud of the fact that that NJC has been able to, you know, um provide incomes for X amount of people over the 41 years that it's been in existence. Does that make sense? You know, every child it's put through school, every pair of trainers it's bought, every Christmas it's it's do you know what I mean? All of those things. And I think that that's and I think fundamentally people are people. Look, if you're talking about a massive corporation, it's a little bit different, you know. It's not as emotive or emotional. Do you agree? Um, whereas when you're talking about smaller businesses where it is very much people first and things like that, it's difficult to compete, but it's it's the economy, like the government has to fix this as opposed to us fixing it. We we can only drive the pay rate so far, you know. But once again, you know, if they didn't hammer us for income tax the way they do, or VAT or any other shadow tax. And I'm being a little bit controversial here, but the reality is, you know, like you know, the working people across every industry in the UK is being hammered by the government for, you know, and they waste it, don't they? You know, let's be honest, they do, they waste it. So, you know, I think that pay rates um they they should be higher, but I don't think it's business that's keeping them lower. I think it's more the environment that we find ourselves in. Does that make sense? Do you agree?

SPEAKER_04 30:51

Yes, to be fair, I I kind of agree with that because for rates to go up, there are a lot of factors that need to come into play. Like what you're talking about, taxes and all of that. If you run in a business, like you rightfully said they want to make a profit, but they've got a certain fee they have to charge their clients what they need to pay for that service as well. Yeah. So out of that service, a lot of things coming out of it. You know what I mean? So um, for me in terms of inflation and and and prices around London and everywhere else, the inflation is rising at a rate that is quicker than what the pay rate is. It's meant to be. I think that's the problem because if inflation is going up and pay rate is going up as well, it might be able to compass for that. But at the moment it's it's not the same.

SPEAKER_05 31:28

Yeah, I keep wondering, you know, the national debt. I'm like, who do we owe this money to? You know, the Klingons or something. Like, who do we owe this money to? It's so much money, um, it just doesn't make any sense. Does that make sense? You know, that is what I said. Anyway, let's move away from pay rates, otherwise I'll get on my soapbox a bit longer. Let's talk about one of the other things that is significantly impacting the industry at the moment, obviously, learning and development. Um, you've all progressed throughout your careers and and you've been able to do certain things like apprenticeships and things like that. Um, there's news coming out recently that apprenticeships are looking to be stopped by the government, your level twos, level threes, and things like that. Um, personally, I think that that's a bad thing because I think apprenticeships have been great for the industry. Let's talk a little bit about how you've benefited from them and how you think it might not have helped you if you didn't have access to them, um, which some people will in the future because of that decision.

SPEAKER_04 32:23

Um, I'll say it's it's devastating, I'll put it that way, because a lot of people can benefit from that. Um, security industry is not a straightforward path career that anyone can just finish uni and come on into. You can start from being a security officer with no qualification, with the potential to work your way up there.

SPEAKER_06 32:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

And I'm an example of that because though I've got BSC in business administration, but when I went for an interview, that was not considered. It's purely because they wanted someone that I've got my skills at the time to get into the security industry. And I was introduced to the apprenticeship and I was so excited to do it. And I'm currently doing it, the level three first-line management. And hopefully I'll be finishing in December this year.

SPEAKER_06 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

However, with those taking away, is that you're taking a pathway for people to progress. Yeah. And a lot of people, a lot of good people with a lot of potential and security, if they do not see those pathways, they're not going to be in it. That's true. So automatically, you're kicking people out.

SPEAKER_06 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

You know what I mean? So for me, I joined lodge security essentially because there was a pathway for me to progress. An example of that, uh, regional manager at the time, um, his name is Garrett. Right. He started from security officer, made his way to supervisor, made his way to area support manager, area manager, regional manager. That's a perfect example for me.

SPEAKER_06 33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

So when I joined lodge, those are people that I looked up to, I want to be in that position. So when they introduced the apprenticeship to me.

SPEAKER_06 33:47

That gave you a vehicle for it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 33:49

So I grab you both hands and I'm currently doing it. And I've got officers now, when I do visit them on site, they're like, You're so young, what have you been doing? How did you get to this point?

SPEAKER_07 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

I'm introducing them to the same thing that I went through.

SPEAKER_07 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

So assuming now there's no cause for them to do, is it pull-off for them?

SPEAKER_06 34:03

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

You know what I mean? So, like I said before, there are a lot of people, great potential. If as long as there's a pathway for them to go through in a career, uh career in security, they want to do it. Yeah. But if you're kicking out apprenticeship, that's devastating.

SPEAKER_05 34:16

Yeah, it is. It's scary, isn't it? Zagate, I mean, you were you you've dealt with this as well. You you went through apprenticeship levies. What's your experience of it being? And do you think it will be a negative thing for the industry if it's taken away?

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Uh yes, um, uh definitely it would be. So from my own experience, I also completed apprentice levy, and that was an addition of sort of wrapping up your experience and really to have that level of knowledge that is required for that position. And um and uh uh and by removing that, um then how do we progress? The same as uh my colleague said. Uh well, first of all, in the security industry we don't have that many trainings or qualifications. No, no, there's no degree. Well, there are in the university, but then that's different security. Wait, wait, yeah, it's usually digital, isn't it? On cyber. On cyber or or or it's more expanded or physical security as well, aspects of it. But um because we do have a say license training, that's the first thing that every security officer receives, isn't it? The first day training that is now mandatory.

SPEAKER_05 35:30

It's quite basic though, isn't it? In terms of it's not really something that's gonna develop a skill set that can take you on to manageable roles like you guys are wanted, or supervisory roles, which is uh no, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

And then uh this is where apprenticeships come very, very useful. The same uh with with my team that I look after, and I look after their succession and progression. Yeah, and uh to assign them all to apprenticeships is something that I really supported my team in achieving, and all of them have been signed up on the managerial levels.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

So now removing that, um how else will I be able to support them in terms of progression?

SPEAKER_05 36:08

Yeah, and also engagement and engagement, yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Uh uh, I mean CIS are great on uh the training and development, and they have a lot of in-house trainings, a lot of leadership trainings, customer service and um security awareness, and protesters training, and and like so so many things that they try to fill in all those gaps, and that uh we are the most knowledgeable working on sites.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

But uh apart from that, if that's not there, then it's only apprenticeships, and that's not there, then what do we do? Just learn from our experiences.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

I know, yeah. I mean you want some kind of formal training, don't you? And that's what apprenticeships give you. It gives you structure and and you know, to us some letters after your name as well, you know, which is really important because you've worked hard to obtain that qualification.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Yeah, you without apprenticeship, I I think, especially with the security industry, I'm afraid that you will not have youngsters coming in there. Because they'll be because you have some potentials now, uh, if they see that there is anything like apprenticeship, they will be willing to join.

SPEAKER_07 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

With the firm belief that uh they will progress.

SPEAKER_07 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

As long as they have the potential, they can do it. But if there is nothing like apprenticeship, I'm afraid that the industry will just be for the old and people who cannot even speak good English.

SPEAKER_07 37:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Because this is the only industry that can accommodate each and everyone. As long as you have your SI license, whether you speak good English or not, they will accommodate you.

SPEAKER_06 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Right? And so having uh apprenticeship in a package for people who want to progress, it will be helpful. But other than that, I see the industry as youngsters moving away, swaying away, going to another field. Because apprenticeship helps a lot.

SPEAKER_07 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Because apprenticeship, the good thing about apprenticeship that I know for sure, I don't do anything like apprenticeship. Back in the day, you can come to the You are a teacher though, Mice.

SPEAKER_05 38:12

You understand the power of education and I know.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Yeah. I tell you all, knowledge is power.

SPEAKER_05 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Knowledge is power, knowledge is light. Yeah. And if you join the industry, the industry now, it's not like it used to be before. All we used to do is patrolling.

SPEAKER_07 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

All we used to do is accessing, uh, monitoring all the access area. Yeah. These are all the areas you you check and see what is happening. But now the industry is far away from it. Of course it is, yeah. Far away from me. Now you have to be knowledgeable. Before we used to have even the DOB, we used to have books, book like ledger books. Yeah, yeah. You write. Yeah. And even those who cannot be able to write, they will sign.

SPEAKER_06 38:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Yeah. But now it's far away from me.

SPEAKER_06 38:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

You have to be IT knowledgeable person because you have to do everything in the system to save everything there. And so if you don't have anything like apprenticeship to begin to teach people what to do and what not to do, they should know the do's and don'ts, the quotes. Yeah, then it's becoming difficult because with apprenticeship, at least they give them a tip at the end of every month.

SPEAKER_06 39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

It's not even free. So I don't I see no reason why if the government is even intending, I hope not. Yeah. Because if they do that, then uh the industry, I'm not saying it will not flourish, but it will take time. But it but that there could in a way.

SPEAKER_05 39:41

So what you're fundamentally saying is that it could it could contribute to a decline of the quality available in the industry. Would you guys agree?

SPEAKER_02 39:48

It's like it's like it's like if you take away apprenticeship, the whole thing will begin to decline. And it's lost, the value will go, you know, the quality of the industry will go, and people will not even hold the the industry with high esteem. They'll think it's just a security. There is nothing that will help you to progress. You go there, you'll be like uh Bash sitting before you. Yeah, he's been there for 15 years, yeah. He can only see my highest position is security controller.

SPEAKER_05 40:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 40:21

And that that would be a real shame, you know, because like a lot of work's being done to change the perception of the industry, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Besides, remember, even with the industry now, you have so many trainings. It's not only about first aid. You have this act, you do it, security awareness, yeah, health and safety. It's all good. And then I believe people who are doing apprenticeship, they will teach them all listening, and then they will know how to treat. You know, it's not about just customer service, it entails a lot.

SPEAKER_06 40:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

And therefore, I believe apprenticeship has a role to play because, like my brother rightly said, uh, honestly, if they take it away, it's very, very difficult for certain people to progress. Yeah. Because remember, if I'm in a position, I'm the supervisor, I may not want to see someone who is not talented or someone who is not having the potential, and then I say, come and join me.

SPEAKER_05 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

It doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_05 41:24

No. You'll just get people that join the industry for a short period and then perhaps transition out and go do something else.

SPEAKER_04 41:31

Possibly that would be the common thing to do because that's what what we both said in the beginning, you might have the intention to join security just for a quick gig, just a couple of months, a couple of years, as it might be. But if you see a career progression in it, like what I saw in the beginning, that's what I stayed. Otherwise, I would have moved to something else. Yeah. But if that's not there no more, people will hardly progress in that career.

SPEAKER_05 41:52

So fundamentally, the industry could lose great people like yourselves who initially just thought, oh, I need to, I need a job, so I'll do this. But then after a period of time, you all thought there's a career here for me, um, and I can add value by working in this industry. So, what we might do, even if you lose two or three people as a direct result of that, that's two or three too many, isn't it? Yeah, of course. Because there could have been great people who could have contributed to a great career. 100%. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Well, hopefully, that's it's not about the number of people leaving the career, it's the quality of people.

SPEAKER_05 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Yeah? Yeah, yeah. People potentially they lead the career, it's not good for the career.

SPEAKER_05 42:28

No, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

I'm telling you. No, so you can get every jack and dude to come on board and then in the wrong thing.

SPEAKER_05 42:35

Yeah. Well, that's true, yeah. There's got to be a passion for it. It is a certain type of job, isn't it, to be fair, which is really interesting. Okay, so let's have a chat about what your your aspirations are next, you know. Like what do you want to do next? Zigita, what about yourself? I mean, what's the next plan? Have you already mapped out the next job, or have you is is somebody in trouble? Is somebody losing this because you want it? Come on, tell us what what's next?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Uh well, um well, actually, I'm figuring it out.

SPEAKER_05 43:04

You are?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

I am you haven't decided yet. I haven't decided yet. Right, okay. Uh, because um somebody's safe, so because for the last 15 years I have been progressing every one year and a half, right? Or or changing the roles or two years. Um, so I don't so after 15 years of that, I thought I need a little bit of break, sort of. Yeah, and sort of uh because after the big growth, you need to have that time really to for everything to settle so you can see what is next in front of you.

SPEAKER_05 43:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

And sort of period of calm. Period of calm and also um finding the work and life balance. Yep. That's has been my priority for the past two years.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

Okay. That's a good priority though.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Exactly, and uh then finding my passions as well because I have focused so much on the career.

SPEAKER_06 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

uh that I have uh let my passions down and the things that I enjoy and hobbies.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

Yeah yeah what are your passions?

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Uh well I love many things but uh um I love drawing and painting so okay so you're quite artistic. I am quite artistic, yes. And I haven't done that for the past 15 years. Oh wow uh because I got into the work and uh the career and um the determination and excitement of the next position and and achieving was a very big theme of my life. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:35

So now I've just one sort of one to reconnect uh with that and then also uh yeah just explore explore what else would interest me try different hobbies yeah and just try you know to find myself oh fantastic well good luck you're finding yourself thank you I have been successful Shakay what about yourself well um I'll say um the next step for me is to take it day by day I've been incredibly fortunate to be in an incredible environment where I've been told that my progression is probably the quick quickest people I've seen in Lodge or probably in the industry. Oh wow because that's in 18 months I came from being a security officer to an area manager which is it's it's quite overwhelming sometimes. What is it 10 months? 18 months 18 wow well done so yeah that's really cool but I've been incredibly fortunate as well to have the right people around me and with Lodge we've got the platform when um you've been promoted you're just not left by yourself they've give you the tools and the people around you to guide you through those pro those promotions and um just to help you enhance and do your job properly. Yeah so for me I'm I'm at that point of my career where I'm looking at the next step the next step what's next what's next yeah that's why I'm doing the apprenticeship so yeah I'm a bit sad if that's gonna go and not just for me but for everyone else that's coming after me. Yeah um so I'm just taking things day by day um just trying to establish myself as the best area manager I can be. And if I can get someone to come as travel the route I have traveled that would be a great achievement for me. My aim now is to get one of my officers to mount up that route as well to be probably a supervisor and ASM or an area manager wherever the case might be that's a great achievement for me as one of my as my previous area manager said um manage people how you would like to be managed.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Yeah true yeah very true so that's what I'm looking forward to oh fair play that's excellent yeah and Mohammed I'll be honest to you I I really admire my colleagues here especially the gentleman progressing within 18 months being area manager. Yeah uh because like I said uh I've been in the industry and uh uh it has uh the pros and cons of it the advantage and disadvantage uh one thing with the industry that I know for sure as long as you meet the right people in the right place and the right time they will always really help you but if you meet the wrong people in the wrong place wrong time it's difficult for you to progress. It's all about suppression suppression so that you won't promote uh but uh quite apart from that even though I've been in the in the in the industry for almost 15 years or more than 15 years now I will still want to progress because uh I I just believe one thing that I I now I I've made up my mind that uh I went to this field with the intention of just doing three years now I've been there 15 years why don't I just focus yeah and then step up the ladder rather than just being in a constant position yeah and then you're thinking of you're thinking of quitting the job at the same time you're thinking of staying so and I think if the one I need to put both feet in there and then ready to progress in a way but if there is nothing like apprenticeship I don't know how do I have to do it because this is not the the the discipline that I will have to take my qualification and say I have this qualification I have this master's I have that master's yeah no it's about your output it is yes it's about it's about your your work performance if your work performance is not good it's difficult for you to progress and even if your work performance is good if you don't meet the right people they will tend to keep you there yes they will tend to keep you but then you change it you do yeah you you you change you find another job the interesting thing about the industry especially with security imagine the building I've been uh this building that I'm currently working yeah you look at the time I've spent there is almost since the inception of the building yeah since six years down the line so you took it on the ground we've got more than three security companies they come and go yeah yeah and we're still there to be over and so the next company that is coming say for example Nasmar Sek yeah they are just like four months three months old yeah because they started their operation the 5th of January to date yeah they may not know they they have they have already their own officers that they trust they have other people that they believe they can do the job for them and so now it's like we are doing the whole thing is like we are on a probation period seeing what you can able to deliver and what you can able to do.

SPEAKER_05 49:34

And by the time they know your talent it's time for them to quit and then another is going to be actually I would disagree actually Mohammed because I think a new company it means a new opportunity I would say so that that that I hope so I would say so and I the advice that I would give to you as someone who's worked I've worked in the industry I've worked with multiple companies I understand how it operates and I think that these two guys do it very very well to be fair you've got to put yourself out there mate you've got to go to your manager area manager regional manager whatever it may be and say I want to progress in the next year and a half next 18 months what do you need me to do or what do I need to prove to you for that to happen and then that manager will come back to you and say right these are the objectives that I would like you to hit this is where I think I will need somebody in this space so you know similar with most things you've got to build trust Mohammed and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Right you're right yeah provided I really think your your your your your your request on board yeah if you request that you want to progress uh I can give you because I I'm here to talk about myself yeah of course yeah uh a clear evidence is when I used to work for Mighty I used to have this manager uh our security manager was there there was a time I was still a relief I met him I said I want to progress is there any uh development package that you have within Mighty you know professionally he said all right we'll talk about that give me some time I'll come back to you yeah yeah then come back to me and I went there for the second time and said no if we have any package of that nature we'll consider our supervisors first before coming down to you there is a chain of hierarchy so we'll begin from the supervisors to the controller and down to the relief officers and by the time we know it the time was up the the contract gone.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

But then you see the the thing is that uh the only person that can stop you from progressing is you there is nobody else out there that will ever stop you. I agree and uh the thing is that you always will meet people who will encourage you and who will not but it's up to you where you choose if you're going to be affected by it and give your power away to someone who is not allowing you to do something that you desire or if you're going to stand strong and say I'm going to find my way.

SPEAKER_05 52:12

But I will say Mohammed you know what thank you very much for sharing that um because the reality is that there'll be people in the industry that experience that that's a fact you know that that is a fact um so how do we change things within an industry if we don't put a spotlight on it and have that kind of conversation so I think it's very brave of you to to share that based on your experience with previous companies that you work with. But I do think um based on what I know about the company that you work with now and the people that I know in that business so I'm coming at it from a personal perspective I think that if you were to have that conversation with those individuals it would be a slightly different outcome.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

And I do believe that I've seen it all yeah because for the first uh I was not here I was on holiday when I came back I spoke to my account manager he made mention things like that said we want people to progress we don't want people to be at just uh uh people who are stagnated in just one position yeah you need people to progress yeah and then you need to do this training you need to do that training of course I was not having my I mean account managers like that before no to talk to you things like that yeah but fortunately this time around with smart sex solution they are into it and which I'm ready to go for.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

Sweet well I'm I'm looking forward to seeing you in a year's time anyway just to touch on that I feel like it's um it's a bit of a culture thing for me yeah because right now I'm mentoring someone who is an officer we've just enrolled him to um a start dictative course which is doing so at large for example we've got the culture of progression yeah it doesn't matter your background whatever as long as you've got the attitude to do it you've got the can do attitude you've got the opportunity to progress. So like what I mentioned earlier I looked at people from the regional manager at the time the director at the time they've all come from being a security officer. Yes so you've got a great example in front of you so I think not just large if every other company can adapt the the culture of progression it makes it easier for employees to progress it gives you the confidence as well because when you look to those people you think okay if they've done it I can do it myself.

SPEAKER_05 54:17

Yeah so you've got a blueprint for you to follow well the security industry is full of organisations that have MDs CEOs COOs CCOs that started as that started as security officers um you know and and it's one of those really interesting industries where that can still happen to be fair which is which is fantastic and I'm expecting I'll expect to see one of you guys as a CEO at some point in um the next five ten years which would be great so all right well listen guys that that actually brings us to the end um of of today's show um in partnership with the City Security Council.

SPEAKER_04 54:52

How have you all found it well it's it's been amazing talking to you guys and learning from these guys and um it's been great.

SPEAKER_05 54:59

Yeah it's been wonderful you had a good time you enjoyed it a good time and uh I've learned a lot today yeah I have as well you know actually I've I've learned you know learning is I mean to me uh every day we learn yeah every day time in time out we always learn it's a learning curve life itself is a learning curve it is without you meet different people you have different experience people give you uh a gist of their own story yeah and you want to take the good side of it you do then you can improve yourself by doing that yeah well I'll tell you what Mark what what we've done today is gonna go in my apprenticeship as off the job hours is it's gonna look in some I'm glad I can have it's gonna go in there as well yeah no that's absolutely fantastic well listen I'd like to thank you all for taking the time um to come and and have this chat with us today I think it's an important conversation I think we touched on some really interesting stuff that that really does impact the industry so I'd like to thank you all um but yeah that brings us to the end cheers guys thank you for having us no problem at all thank you Ryan thank you thank you so much all right guys that brings us to the end um of our episode in partnership with the City Security Council um we touched on some really really interesting subjects there also some controversial ones you know um what Mohammed said um about development and what he's experienced in his career um was incredibly interesting um you know how we discussed pay rates in the industry and how pay rates really dictate um how people um perceive the industry and whether they will stay in a certain role or whether they will even accept a certain position once again is is really interesting. You know what's really great about today's episode is that we got to hear it from the horse's mouth we got to hear it from the people on the ground that are delivering the services every single day protecting people property and assets um across the capital of the UK but that brings us to the end of today's episode um and I'm going to end it as I always do. If you can be good be bad bye bye