#10 - Discovering Your First Role in FM - Bernard Crouch, Todimu Bello and Wayne Young

Welcome to Episode #10 of The Facilities Management Exchange

We're joined by Bernard Crouch, Todimu Bello, and Wayne Young for a powerful conversation about discovering your first role in Facilities Management and the challenges many aspiring professionals face when trying to break into the industry.

In this episode expect:
• How people really find their way into Facilities Management
• Why FM is still overlooked in schools and career pathways
• The perception problem facing the industry
• The realities of starting out – from janitors to leadership roles
• Advice for young professionals trying to break into FM
• The power of networking and saying yes to opportunities
• Todimu’s journey, resilience, and passion for the industry

Enjoy everyone! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages, we're back with episode 10 of the Facilities Management Exchange.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Anybody coming into the industry, for me, one of the biggest things is consider saying yes to everything.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

My my advice, and this is the only advice I'll give you, then I want to shut up and let the experts get involved. I think I think it is partially down to bodies like UCAS and also careers advisers.

SPEAKER_05 0:22

This time we've been joined by Wayne Young. That was going to be my second bit of advice, his network.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Bernard Crouch. I think a lot of FMs fall down on that. They're not very good at presenting to the board.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

And also Todamou Ballet. Todamou is looking to enter the facilities management industry here in the UK. She studied facilities management in Nigeria, has been in the UK since 2022, and has really struggled to transition her skill set from Nigeria to the UK.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

But then do you know things took a different turn? The rejections really did train me. It looked as if I traded ambition for survival before.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

As ever, if you can't be good, be bad. See you soon. Bye-bye. It's another episode of the Facilities Management Exchange. Great to see you all here again today, supporting the podcast. As ever, um I always like to say this at the beginning of every episode, although I do forget sometimes, but I'm going to say it this time. Please like, share, and follow the podcast. We've got a very important mission. We're really trying to add value, and most of the people that we have on the podcast help us create absolute bangers. They're so interesting, they're so much fun, and it really helps contribute to the remainder of the industry. Anyway, we're here today actually to talk about something that is one of the reasons why the podcast was set up. The podcast was set up to inspire the next generation of FM professionals. So today we're going to be joined by a couple of people with significant experience. We have Wayne Young, one of our regular contributors at the Facilities Management Exchange. We've got Bernard Crouch, who, by the way, Wayne Young once called the grandfather of FM. So I'm enjoying looking forward to the um back and forth of this episode today. Look at him wincing. We can take that out, Bernard, don't we? It's fine. And we're also joined by Toddomou Belu, who is from Nigeria, has come to the UK, and is looking to enter the facilities management industry over here. How are you doing, Toddemu? You all right?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Hi, hi, I'm good.

SPEAKER_05 3:16

Yeah, I think we need to find out about you first because we already know so much about these two.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Alrighty. Yeah. Okay. Okay dokie, yeah. Let's go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:23

So let's talk talk to us a little bit about your journey. You're looking to enter the FM industry in the UK.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:29

Um, I know that you worked in that industry in Nigeria.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Um I did. Which I do want to find out about, by the way. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Um, yeah. So I think um if I give um tell you about my story, it would give more context to it. Yes, yeah. Uh so I actually started my career in the FM space about 10 years ago. Right? Yeah, this year makes it 10 years actually. You don't look old enough. I know, I get that a lot.

unknown 3:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Are you eating? Probably good jeans. Yeah. So I started uh my career, you know. I worked my way up the career ladder, and you know, it was going so well, and then I it got to a point I wanted more, and then I decided to um pursue a master's degree in facilities management.

SPEAKER_05 4:18

And then you can do that in Nigeria.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

Because you can't really do that here. But there's certain things, isn't there? But not they're not everywhere, are they, Bernard?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Not as much as you as they should be.

SPEAKER_05 4:28

But they under I understand it's my understanding that degrees in facilities management are far more commonplace in other parts of the world. Yeah. How crazy is that considering London is the mecca of facilities management?

unknown 4:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

It's mad, isn't it? Because yeah, I'm interviewing some roles at the moment, and there are so many worldwide people that come in for these roles with masters in FM. Yeah. And you're like, this is mad. But they and in comparison, I I've not got a degree in FM.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Yeah. Um you wouldn't get one either way. I'm kidding, obviously. He's a great professional.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Yeah, I mean, there are universities in Nigeria that offer um master's degree for facility management, yeah, for people who desire to further their interest in facilities management. And yeah, so I enrolled into one of them, and um that was sometimes in 2019, and then 2020 came and then COVID came and then so um the program was brought to a halt, yeah. So yeah, yeah, it affected it was supposed to be an 18-month program, but then COVID eats, and then you know, uh so for some universities in Nigeria, we have things like strike, yeah. Yeah, so for when um um when workers are not getting their desired expectations and you know their desired results, so they strike in a bit to get the government's attention to get them to do what they want.

SPEAKER_05 5:58

So we do the same thing I've heard, it just doesn't work. They're just not interested in it at all.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah, so COVID eat, and then there was strike, and then it affected the program, and then 18 months program dragged into more than 18 months, and then yeah, so and so can I ask Todd Mou, just a quick question.

SPEAKER_05 6:15

When when you're at school, when you're whether I don't know what what they call it in, is it high school in Nigeria or secondary school. Yeah, so secondary school. In secondary school, you'll you probably have careers officers the same way that we do here that kind of tell you about careers in certain subjects and so on and so forth. In Nigeria, do they tell you about a career in facilities management so young people then aspire to that career?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

When I started, no, now yes. Right. Because people are more, yeah, it's so people are becoming more aware and then they are trying to get the information out there, they are trying to put it out there. So for someone like me, I I also did that while I was in Nigeria before I moved away. I was part of a team of persons that go to schools to talk about facilities management to um children, to people in secondary school, you know, just for them to be aware and know that it is an option if they are interested in you know pursuing um a degree in that area and you know pursuing that line of you know uh career. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:14

And that's quite that's once again, Bernard, quite interesting because I think if you were to ask uh a student in an English school the same question, they would probably have a different answer. Being being a regular um with the IWFM, um I I know that you're working on ways to change that and things like that. Is that something that you think happens a lot in UK schools?

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Uh I definitely think that lots of uh lots of students in UK schools know nothing about FM. Yeah, and anything they do know is probably based on the caretaker in the school, that's their perception. Yes. Um and I could talk for hours about UCAS. UCAS doesn't help at all. They do not recognise FM. Um and two years running, we've been to their exhibition. I've written to various people, met with various people, and they don't promote the university courses for FM at all at UCAS. So if you're a student going to a UCAS exhibition, you will not hear you'll hear about everything else.

SPEAKER_06 8:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

You could become a candlestick maker, uh, join the navy, um, become an architect. There's lots and lots of other jobs, but nothing to do nothing that's called FM.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

What drives that then? What do you think drives that?

SPEAKER_03 8:24

I just think historically we've always been kind of a Cinderella sector that people don't seem to know about.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

It's not very sexy though, is it? Is FM? Well, I think it is. Well, there are uh yeah, but I think we look at this fine group of people I've got here.

unknown 8:36

You know.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

But I think that's the problem. I think we we struggle a little bit with the industry because people think it's looking at toilets, we think it's looking at brook and stuff. Box and boilers is the famous uh boilers. Box and boilers. But yeah, I think that's the problem.

SPEAKER_05 8:54

No, I like it. Box and boilers is good. That was brilliant. I said I like it.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

I had a I had a CEO who said to me, Bernard, come on, you're you're bigging this up too much. All you do is you come in in the morning, make sure the heating's working, make sure the toilets aren't blocked, to make sure the lights are on, and then you go home.

SPEAKER_06 9:07

Really?

SPEAKER_03 9:09

And I wrote him a very long email. So I'm gonna I'm gonna list it out for you. These are all the things that I'm dealing with in your buildings to make sure people come in in the morning, they're safe, they go home intact, alive, and they haven't uh caught anything or died of anything or or hurt themselves, and that everything in the building is compliant and clean and the building secure, yeah, and they get a decent, hopefully, lunch. Um I said hopefully, and and and all of those all of those things, all of those things were with within uh my remit where I was at the time.

SPEAKER_06 9:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

So it it simply wasn't about the three things that he mentioned. Uh which which is I think at the I think it's the perception out there of a lot of people, they just see it as as some very basic things you do, they don't realise uh I d I find that fascinating.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

That must have actually been quite um quite frustrating for you to to get that kind of comment because obviously he's basically saying, Well, I pay you a full-time salary, but you aren't really earning it. That that's kind of the perception, isn't it? Which I think is so untrue. Um, you know, because you started as a janitor in a school, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, I started as age five. Yeah, yeah, age five. Only last week. Yeah, well, he was born looking like this, you know. So it basically went, talk us about uh you know, being a school janitor. How do you feel this this? I just want to stick on this a little bit because I think it's important. Um, how education is is perhaps linking into facilities management. And I think it's brilliant, Todd and that you actually heard about that when you were in secondary school. Um, and that in the UK we've got lots of large cities, but we don't necessarily hear about it. And it is an industry, let's be honest, which has an average age of 50 plus, you know, so there's going to be a lot of people in the industry of town. So how did they perceive how did students perceive you in because you would have been very young yourself then as well?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah, so so I I was a when I was a caretaker, I would have been 22.

SPEAKER_05 11:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Um, and I think I think the reality is most students look down on you because they thought, here's here's the guy who unblocks the toilet when I go and block it, here's the guy that that that fixes the holes in the walls that I punch in it, or yeah, etc. etc. So I think I think they're always caretakers, janitors, cleaners, those kind of roles are always seen as those lower perception roles. Yeah. Um, but in reality, you think about any of those schools and how important those those roles really are. And I think I think the reality is that's the fur peop students first touch in FM. I think people don't really realise it. But that if we had more caretakers who were ambitious and and and really took pride in what they do as a a role and etc, etc., and and start shouting a little bit more about the industry, I think that'd be our first hook into those people in school going, actually, this is a career for something.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

And what what did you need to have in order to become a caretaker in school? You knew what a screwdriver was and a mop, and that was enough.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, yeah, that I I got literally got tested as to whether I could put some chairs out, whether I could I'm just that's in my yeah, I'm imagining that test. Yeah, it was great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

They're all upside down, you sacked it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

Again. Wayne, that is not true.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

But yeah, so it it was literally, oh, can you do can you do some chairs? Can you fit a hole in a wall? Can you do a bit of DIY type stuff?

SPEAKER_06 12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

And I think actually the biggest bit was could you deal with problems? And I think that that's that's probably the biggest thing with an FM, right? Is that are you able to f be flexible and think on your feet and deal with an issue at the time?

unknown 12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

Well, I mean to be fair, you got a lot of those skills from the forces though, didn't you? Being involved with the forces at a young age and so because you were in the cadet cadet. Cadets, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so that actually helped you with that kind of and then it became a natural progression.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah, yeah. I know yeah. So I spent some time in the reserves and then yeah, it was that that progression from that into FM was really easy because it is it it's thinking on your feet and running forwards.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

Yeah. I wonder as well, you know, if you talk if because we're we're talking, let's talk about it holistically where you've got the schools. D does the armed forces talk about facilities management, do you think when veterans come out of the forces, do they do they do a better job?

SPEAKER_01 13:27

I think they're getting better. Right. Um so I do FM recently set up a group of.

SPEAKER_05 13:32

I went to yeah, I've been to a couple of their veterans.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Right, and and I think that that's an indication of how serious the FM industry is taking for forces leavers and how then they transition into a career in FM. And I think we've always had forces leavers, forces leavers have always traditionally navigated towards FM because of that mentality and mindset.

SPEAKER_05 13:52

Well that that was the thing, wasn't it? You're either an ex-copera or an ex-army, or you know what I mean? That's generally the perception of the role, which I don't think is necessarily true. You know, I suppose but particularly the people that I meet across the space.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

So I think the figure is about 45,000 uh service men and women each year come into the job market.

SPEAKER_06 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

And prior to the veterans uh being set up, we did sometimes run events where we would encourage perhaps um ex-army or guys that were about to leave the army, uh, some of whom I personally know because they came to that to an event and I chatted to them and then they've since come into the industry. Um and I've always been really impressed with the ex-military that I've worked with.

SPEAKER_07 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Uh turn up on time, very organized, very focused, yeah, and good good skills, very good skills to bring to come into um to come into FM.

SPEAKER_05 14:46

So do you think it's got better since since I think I think it's probably got better.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

There's probably still some more work to do. Um but the work does still start back in the schools, and as you correctly said, IWFM. So we've got it's it it doesn't sound very impressive. We're going to a school in March in uh Hertfordshire uh to speak to the uh children there. Um we've done a couple down in Bristol, yeah, um, Bolton University, so they're students at university rather than uh at school.

SPEAKER_07 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Um but we're all volunteers and it's quite difficult to get us out. We're doing day jobs. Well everybody's got day jobs and responsibilities and families, and so it's it's that's a challenge, isn't it? How much time are you going to spend doing that type of thing? So that's that's a bit of a challenge along the way. But I think I think it is partially down to bodies like you, Cass, and also careers advisors. Yeah. Because I don't think careers advisors, well, I I I doubt if anybody can name uh or say a careers advisor came up with something. Well, I know I know I my careers advisor years ago. What on earth is he talking about? He hasn't he's looked at my what I'm good at and decided to recommend jobs in things I'm not good at. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_05 15:59

I I don't even remember what my careers probably probably said go away or something.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

I don't think mine included being a facilities manager. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 16:06

Yeah, mine wasn't, yeah. I I can't.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Yeah, I mean, yeah, in in secondary school for me as well, it wasn't really um there were there was not no much awareness about it. Yeah, so yeah, I actually stumbled into facilities management as with a lot of people. So really go on then tell us that story. Oh, okay. So um back in school, just like everyone had mentioned, careers advisors, and yeah, there was no careers advisors telling you about facilities management. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:35

So uh for facilities management, actually, there is no um So sorry, if we got our wires crossed, because I thought that in schools in Nigeria they did talk about facilities management.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Now, but not when no, not when I started. I keep thinking you're 10 years younger than you are, Tomoe do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 16:50

It's that it's that stuff you're eating again, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Now we have people pushing it out, but yeah, when I started.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

When you started no, okay, brilliant. I just wanted because I I went the other way. So my fault. I'm a terrible hoist, I don't apologize.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, so I stumbled into it. So I actually um studied real estate. So facilities management management is a branch of real estate back in Nigeria. And yeah, you can't you cannot study it as an undergraduate degree, you can only study it as a postgraduate degree. But I think now they are working, maybe some universities are working on it. I'm not quite sure. But yeah, yeah, so for you to um get into the FM industry, you have to go through real estate, you have to have background um knowledge and degree in real estate, and yeah, that was what I had. And then it was during my internship. I worked in a role that is um that was a facilities management role, and that's how I talk to us a bit about that then.

SPEAKER_05 17:43

What what what is facilities management like in Nigeria? Is it different? Are there different rules? Are there different regulations? Do you have to operate in a slightly different way? How how does it work in Nigeria?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah, I mean, quite different. I haven't really worked in the FM industry here, but from what I've seen. We're gonna get onto that though.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

We're gonna get onto that.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah, but from what I have seen, what have heard, yeah, it's totally different from how it is being practiced back in Nigeria. Yeah, um, for Nigeria, we have um um you have facilities management, uh, facilities manager doing more of um commercial, residential. Actually, I think it's more of residential than commercial, yeah. So you have we have a lot of facilities manager who are facilities manager for residential buildings, right? Blocks of flats, tenanted um um properties, mini estates. Yeah, that was what I was actually doing.

SPEAKER_05 18:35

And is that like build-to-rent that we call in the UK, build-to-rent or build to sell where they'll build a tower block.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

So like condos that are quite expensive, and then you have permanent staff looking after it.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like uh um yeah, I would say, I would say yes. Um, so it is like um blocks of flats where people are living, and then you are the facilities manager taking care of um things like the grounds, um, things like the security, things like the gardening, the cleaning, the cleaning, maintenance, yeah, yeah, yeah. The leaf maintenance.

SPEAKER_05 19:09

So very much the same kind of stuff then, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I guess it is the same kind of stuff then.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, that's controls a little bit different than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

It's included actually.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

What type of pests are you dealing with out there?

SPEAKER_00 19:22

So we have things like rats, yeah. We have things like um mosquitoes. Yeah. I mean, although sometimes they are not totally eradicated.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Really?

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah, so yeah, so it's mostly just rats and snakes.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

Anyway, no, no. Is there no snakes in Nigeria?

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Um, maybe in the bushes, but not in the cities.

SPEAKER_05 19:41

Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah, we don't live with snakes.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

We were all like, but you were gonna say cheaters and lions. I just imagine you with a random little line. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

We don't have, yeah, we don't have we don't have um wild animals living with us.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

No, no, no, I'm joking. I'm joking. There's a rhino in the grounds again.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So we have things like chickens and goats, yeah. Right, okay. Yeah, okay. So why so so obviously you when did you come to the UK? I came in 2022.

SPEAKER_05 20:10

2020. Was that because of COVID then? Did that what was the reason for that move?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, so so when I got to a point I wanted more, and then I started um pursuing a master's degree, and then it came to a halt because of COVID and you know other factors, and then I so I decided to switch it to MBA. So, yeah, so I enrolled into a university here to pursue an MBA degree, and then more so because I was trying to strengthen my skills regarding strategy, leadership, and you know, business skills, because I got to a point where those were now becoming, they were now, you know, it was now being demanded of me, you know, if I wanted to, you know, step onto higher roles you know in my career and yeah. So I decided to pursue an MBA degree, and then then at the same time I got married, and then so I just moved here after getting married. I moved here. Yeah, so started. Congratulations. Thank you. I mean, that's almost um four years now.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

If it's the first time I've met you, it's worth saying congratulations. Thank you. I'm still I'm still saying happy no year.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

That's fine. Yeah, so I I came here, you know, did the MBA degree, and then I was hoping I could get um a part-time role in facilities management as a in a bid to you know get my foot in into the door and you know, sort of transition as a facilities manager back in Nigeria into the UK industry. But then, you know, things um took a different turn, and uh I uh I was not getting the desired results. Um, I think it was I'm I'm not sure why that was, but I would say maybe because um the employers did not want to take a chance on a student because I was a student, I was on a student visa, yeah, and yeah, so I think maybe that was one of it.

SPEAKER_05 21:56

So are you still a student now? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Yeah, the program was for a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:01

Did you I'm guessing you passed?

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Oh yeah. I haven't been a degree now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

That'd be really embarrassing if you started.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

Yes, I have ideas. So still looking to um transfer the skills already learned into the UK marketplace now, still looking for a new role within the facilities management sphere?

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am still looking for a new role. Yeah, because um facilities management is my forever love. Yeah. Yeah. Wherever I am, I still have a passion for FM. I still have the desire to get back into the FM industry.

SPEAKER_05 22:37

And yeah, so because that isn't that's how you and Bernard know each other, isn't it? Because I understand Bernard, you were mentoring Toddemu for a while. Do you talk to us a little bit about it?

SPEAKER_03 22:44

What when I first met Toddamu and she started, she arrived and started coming to some of our uh IWFM events.

SPEAKER_06 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

And um and I and she explained she was looking for a role. So I actually did find, I mean, it was difficult. There was a couple of of possible roles which were geographically weren't great for a start, difficult, difficult to get to. Okay. Um so that's that's a consideration. And um I i in in both of those cases, I don't I don't actually know what they did in what the actual client did in the end, whether they did recruit somebody or whether it was someone local or what they did.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

So where do you live, Toddomu?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

I live in North London. North London? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

So quite easily commutable into the city then.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, no, it's it was never a barrier. Wherever I lived, I mean I was willing to commute to the city.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

So Todd Moo said she was prepared to go anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

So yeah, or even relocate if I needed to, yeah, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

But but I'm when I do recruiting, I do actually look very carefully at where people live. Well, of course you do, yeah. And if and if this person says I live in Birmingham and they're applying for a job in Uxbridge, I'm gonna go now.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

Yeah, how are you gonna get there?

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:53

Yeah. Well, I've I've got a drive every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so well, I'll tell you what, let's open the floor up a little bit then to to both Wayne and and and also Bernard. And uh let's start with you, Wayne. Um, what advice would you give to Toddomu in terms of actually entering the marketplace? Because the market what I would say about this marketplace in the UK, it's very diverse, you know, and there's there's sectors within sectors, I think, within FM. So I think my my advice, and this is the only advice I'll give you, then I'm gonna shut up and let the experts get involved, um, is to choose what sector you want to move into and then focus in on that and then network within that sector. That would be my advice. Um, but let's pass it to you.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah, you see, I disagree.

SPEAKER_05 24:32

Do you? Yeah, get out.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Um northern, but not that northern.

SPEAKER_05 24:41

Yeah, I'm joking. I'm joking, I'm joking, clearly. No, the that's what the podcast is about.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

And the reason for that is I I've I've worked in education, I've worked for all quite a few of the different sectors in our our industry, and I've always said that FM is FM, regardless of the industry you work in. The building might be different, but ultimately what you're delivering is a building service for people.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

So you think a broad church is a better approach? Do you think that's true with the other?

SPEAKER_01 25:07

No, I don't think you have to pigeonhole yourself into a sector. What I would say is commit yourself to that role. And and so so one of the things I I did as a caretaker first into the role was said yes at every opportunity I could possibly do, so and take every single learning I could do from that. And that that involved all sorts of things, putting lots of chairs out in one turn, or or the right way around, the right way around, so people could sit on them, yeah, believe it or not. How dare they? I know who do they think they're to clean them after that, um but um yeah, so it involved everything, and I and uh ultimately what where I got noticed was when I did a a piece of work around sorting our compliance out, and that's when somebody went, Well, actually, you're more than just fixing chairs and all those kind of type things. So let's try and give you some some more visibility and more things to do, and then that's where then that traction started. So absolutely, anybody coming into the industry for me, one of the biggest things is consider saying yes to everything, and I say consider because actually with with hindsight, there's been times where I've said yes and it it's turned around and bitten me. But you still learn from that as well, though.

SPEAKER_05 26:20

You do learn from failure, you do, I think.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

But there's some there's some times where you can go down a path and you've said yes, and you think actually, was that a waste of my effort and energy?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

So consider is is I suppose the the the middle ground to that, but yeah, consider yes at every opportunity.

SPEAKER_05 26:35

And Bernard, Bernard, uh same question, what's your view on that?

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Uh I'm I'm not entirely in agreement. So I think for instance, uh so what we're saying is 2-1. FMs who work in say law, for instance, in law firms, you could apply for that job, but you're not going to get it if someone else has worked in a law firm for the last two years. They they tend to see themselves as uh pretty unique, and they are it's there is a different vibe in in say a law firm to your average um office building. Um having said that, I've I've endeavoured to work in every every area of FM that I could possibly manage, and and also working do different roles within uh the FM space. Um I guess if you've got a potential employer who is open-minded, then they'll see they they would see the benefit of that. And and actually I think I think uh doing an MBA, I did an MBA, um I think doing an MBA is great because you're you've got a little bit of an advantage when you're presenting to the C-suite, if that comes up in your job. And that's something that I find I think a lot of FMs fall down on that. They're not very good at presenting to the board uh or talking to a room full of people. And when I've been doing tutoring, I always get them, I force them to uh twist their arms and say, right, you're gonna present to us uh for the next 10 minutes on this.

SPEAKER_06 28:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

And oh I can't do that. And I said, Well, no, you can, you're an FM. You you will need at some point or another to go in and present. Yep. And that could be about that could be a budget thing. You you're trying to get more budget. IT will go in there very confidently and get it. HR, um marketing, all those other departments, they'll go in and speak confidently and get the uh the extra budget. And I think this is sometimes where FM we fall down.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

I I think that as an industry is where we've always fallen down. We've never positioned ourselves very well into the C-suite. We've done we've we've always positioned ourselves very well in the shadows dealing with the problems in the background, and we've never positioned ourselves very well in the in in that front spotlight. Um and I think that's that's really important, and I think that was going to be my second bit of advice is network and actually getting out there and building that confidence to talk to lots of different people, yeah, because that one conversation with birded, yeah, etc. etc. grows into something else as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, and I think network is telling me it's burning out in the frostbere.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

So I obviously second that, and um I was going to mention, I've I've already said to Tony, we I've got two events in March, one on the fourth and one on the fifth. Yeah, both of them are um I like like buses, I like my events to come up, you know, in pairs.

SPEAKER_06 29:26

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Uh so the fourth is really interesting, and we've got a speaker who uh uh she's doing an apprenticeship in property, not actually specifically FM, but she really is there an FM apprenticeship now?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

You can't do FM apprenticeships, yeah. There is one now, isn't it? I thought there was. I just wasn't. I do FM level two to four, isn't it? I think is an apprenticeship. And even six, I think you can do six and seven you can do on apprenticeship as well. Right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

So yeah, she's she's a really good she's she's really keen as as uh as as they can be and described the horrors of trying to get an apprenticeship in the first place and how difficult it is and how many interviews she did and how many times she sent her CV off.

SPEAKER_06 30:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

And it's genuinely got harder than the last time that perhaps you or I applied for a job because you're being interviewed by AI.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Yeah, that's right. I've I've heard a lot of scare stories about it.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

Very, very sounds absolutely awful. And you're sending out a hundred applications and maybe get one interview. Uh it's just a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 30:31

Yeah, but the issue is I I I think that this is also an issue with people who are creating their CVs because there's a lot of people creating CVs via AI, they're then getting judged by AI. So you've got one computer speaking to another computer, and they're both going, eh, no, you know. So that's also I think that that look we're human beings naturally, uh we will always go for the path of least resistance. It's bred into us, it's actually an evolutionary trait which helps us and helps us from a societal. So we'll always go for the path least resistance. So AI will come into it, so but it's about how do you get over those barriers, you know. And what I find it ultimately fascinating, especially about what you just said, Bernard, about it being a little bit harder, is that we are in an industry that's crying out for young, enthusiastic individuals, and we've got a very young, very enthusiastic individual in the room who is clearly qualified, competent, and capable, but yet she's struggling to move into our industry. I think that is fascinating. Do you?

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Yeah, yeah. No, I think scary as well.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

How as how?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah, because it is is that the area is social media?

SPEAKER_05 31:41

How? Please comment because I want to know, I want to understand this. Like, how do we just come on, guys? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Well, I I was just about to say, is is AI driving that, i.e., because they're looking and going, okay, so let's base it on experience. And uh is is there more people going for the same roles who have more experience, and that's what's been picked out of the list.

SPEAKER_05 32:08

Um, just to clarify, what type of role are you going for entry-level roles in the industry, or are you going for roles that you that that you've that that uh that that that you don't have the experience for? I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

That's fine. I mean, uh obviously I I do have experience, but I don't have experience here. So in a bid to transition, yeah, I'm more than open to exploring entry-level roles if that is what is gonna get me a foot in the door.

SPEAKER_05 32:35

Yeah, of course, yeah. So I But a building's a building's a building, whether it's in Nigeria or something.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Unfortunately, it's not like that here. It's not just a building here, and then they're not gonna give you a role if you don't have experience. But how am I gonna get experience if you're not employing me in the first place?

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Catch 22, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

So it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Early in my career, uh, when I was much, much younger, yeah, I was I was in a position where I just kept getting you must have two years' experience, you must have two years experience. And it was really hard because I had to eventually found a company who was prepared to give me training, yeah, and then I could get into that job. So it's it's it's that's something that's been around a you know, kind of probably forever. That challenge of and there's always going to be companies out there who have no intention of giving any training at all, but they want to see the experience. And I I agree with I agree with Toddy Moon in as much that if you come here from another country, it's always going to be harder to get a job. Um, and some of the reasons around that would be you've got experience in Nigeria, but obviously our health and safety regs, they're probably I assuming I'm assuming they're fairly similar, but they are going to be there are going to be differences and differences in service delivery and so you know the differences that I've seen when I've worked overseas uh with with clients um and even somewhere like New Zealand, and I've gone, are you sure that's uh oh yeah no, that's fine. That's our rigs are different to yours, you know.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

Yeah, I know, but the thing is I'll I'll I would counter that with this. Um, you know, you can work for one business in the UK um that has a set structure with regards to their compliance and the way that they do things, um, and then you could go work for another business across the street that has a completely different set of compliance and a completely different structure, which you then need to learn as an individual. So, what I what my view on that kind of approach, whilst I understand what you're saying with regards to regulations and things like that, I think not taking a chance on an individual that clearly has experience but not necessarily experience in the UK, um, that that to me is is is lazy management. Do you know what I mean? That's that's not wanting to bring somebody in and then spend the time with that individual to give them the tools even though they have the talent.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

I I don't know if it's lazy management or whether it's that path of least resistance again.

SPEAKER_05 34:59

But that that kind of translates once again to you know, yeah, yeah. How as an industry can we say, and and I have this conversation with lots of people across the industry where the industry is saying we're screw we're screaming out for young people, we want new blood, we want new people coming in, the next generation of people managing our buildings. Um, how does that tally up with oh they haven't got two years' experience, it can't really be asked investing in them. I'm gonna go pay five grand more for Dave down the street. You know, do you know what I mean? And that's very simplistic terms, but in reality, isn't that what's happening?

SPEAKER_03 35:31

I think it's just and you you'd maybe know more examples than I do. I I don't know how many people I've met who are doing a cleaning job, and then they it turns out they speak four languages and they've got they've got a degree in computer science or something back in whichever.

SPEAKER_05 35:47

We we literally have tens of people that work for us that are in that similar situation whereby they're highly qualified, but their qualifications don't link up to the UK market, but that's generally across parameters like legal, um, accounting, um IT, things like that. We've already ascertained that facilities management has no formal qualifications attached to it. So that roadblock isn't there for facilities management. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Yeah, I mean there's the idea with FM qualifications, there's the degrees out there that that do exist, there's the diplomas and things like that. But there's not many jobs that I see that require people to have those qualifications before you become a head of FM or whatever that may well be. There is there is some still, but I think that's on the decline as well. I think a lot more um a lot more companies who are looking for facilities management professionals are are more looking at can they do the job, have they got experience of doing that job? Can they protect my business from that risk? Um, and I think that that's possibly where that speaking from somebody who's who's recently recruited, yeah, when I've looked at CVs, that's what I'm looking for, is I'm looking for somebody who can come in and do the job and be able to deliver that compliance and that safety net for my business.

SPEAKER_05 37:08

So as a hiring manager, um, and and and let's say you had that structure underneath you already in place, but you needed let's say, let's say you needed a facilities coordinator, for example, or something relatively junior, and you had the time to be able to develop that individual, give them the time that they needed, would you would you still have that same attitude?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Yeah, yeah. So I I have recently recruited or recruiting for a facilities coordinator if you're interested.

SPEAKER_05 37:37

But uh I say things for a reason, Totemy.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

But no, so so we we are we are recently or going through the process of recruiting for a facilities coordinator, and I'm not looking for somebody who's worked in the rail industry because I want somebody to come in who's got a fresh pair of eyes and give me that ability. But I'm also not necessarily looking for somebody who's spent years and years and years as a facilities coordinator. I'm looking at people who, like me, started off at a caretaker or or started off wherever, but has that passion and ambition to achieve.

SPEAKER_06 38:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Um, because that's somebody I can bring into the team and we can absolutely work together to create this new philosophy that we're doing within our business.

SPEAKER_05 38:17

Yeah. And do you know what it really makes me think as well, Toddamu? How many of the Toddemoos are out there? There's how many others are out there? There's gonna be a fair few, I'd say whereby that's an untapped resource that could really well give the industry what it needs, that that that injection that it needs of youth and enthusiasm and things like that, and we're not really identifying it. Um, that to me is crazy. Don't you agree? Yeah, absolutely crazy. So, Todamou, um do you want a job, Wi Way? Absolutely, I mean you've got his email address anyway, because it's on the invite. Some people put a job. You can't get away now.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Yeah, I'm definitely going to pull up after the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 38:59

Yeah. I do find that fascinating as well, you know, because I can think of I could I could probably reel off five or six names, ten names of people that I know that I think would happily have a conversation with someone like yourself, Toddby, um, about some kind of role within their business that and and they would be like, this is great, this is exactly the type of individual that I want joining my team, you know. And maybe maybe there's a maybe maybe it's maybe maybe it's where you're looking for roles, maybe it's what you're applying for, maybe it's and and if that's it'd be so interesting to find that out because if we could find that out, I I think it's the C V pile, I think that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

I think you've got to break through that pile of CVs.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Uh yeah, you get 100 CVs in and you know you you you've immediately Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

Yeah, it is that that's shortlisting, isn't it? Yeah, that's you know, reducing that number to a manageable level that you can you that you can then interview. But it's still crazy to me that especially when you get involved in other events as well, Todd and because it sounds like you've you've really tried to put yourself out there, you've you've met Bernard who's mentored at you and helped you.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

So you you have uh I'll say I did try because immediately I got yeah, because we have um IWFM back in Nigeria and I was part of you know. Oh, is there really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:14

Is IWFM go global? What's going on?

SPEAKER_03 40:16

It's it's very patchy, but yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah, so I was part of the committee.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Bernard was never in a country anymore, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

You're out FMing in other countries, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Yeah, so as soon as I came here, I you know tried to join the committee. I tried to be part of the event, you know, just um just um networking and you you know just putting myself out there, trying to basically transition into the industry. And it's been daunting.

SPEAKER_05 40:48

Yeah, well, hopefully, being on today's episode will um perhaps open up some doors for you, which I think is really important. What what do you what are you doing for work now?

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah, so I currently work in um a children's residential home as a support worker for um looked after looked after children, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:07

Yeah, and how do you find it? Do you enjoy it? Um, yeah, because um because I'm guessing that's rewarding but in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Yeah, yes. It is, I mean it can be done in two, but it is it's a good role, and then I'm able to I have um transferable skills as well. Yeah, uh, I'm still able to put some of my HSE skills into use in the home as well.

SPEAKER_05 41:30

So well, all I'm saying is you're making yourself look more attractive from an FM perspective because if you can deal with children, you can deal with clients and people around the realm.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

I think most people listening to the podcast will probably be going, Yeah, that's what I do. I look after children.

SPEAKER_05 41:44

So it's true though, isn't it? It's absolutely true. Okay, so that's really interesting. So, what what's your next move then, Todd Moo? Like how f from your perspective, what do you do next to to achieve that dream of getting a role within FM in and and guys, if if she can't come up with one?

SPEAKER_03 42:01

I think it's been difficult for Toddy Moon to to obviously she's trying to fit working the doing the work she's doing, which is challenging, yeah, as as well as uh then maybe attending events or whatever. We we met at um uh tomorrow meets today, I think it was.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

And and I remember you were you weren't able to turn up bang on time because you you you had to finish work and then travel across London. And obviously that that it's it's difficult to be doing a job and then try to get to uh events in generally they're in the you know they're they're nearly always in the evening in in London anyway.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Yeah, and to be honest, I really have not been doing much of FM applications in a while because I was just focusing on the new role I have, trying to build myself, and yeah, so I being on the podcast as you know boosted my morale to go back there because the rejections really did drain me. And um, yeah, and then it got to a point where um it was now more so it looked it looked as if I traded ambition for survival because I moved into a different sector totally. Yeah, I was not, you know, I I didn't have experience in. I mean I did have experience, but it was not a paid experience, and yes, so and then you also got to a point where I not having a job became not non-negotiable because I had bills to pay. I could not do it. Yeah, of course, yeah. I could not I I had to stop waiting for a role in FM and then I had to restrategize and you know, I had to get into a role that was easy to get into, for lack of a better word, and you know, I was able to pay my bills, and yeah, so that's how I found myself in the healthcare sector, and yeah, and uh but I think that says even more about you.

SPEAKER_05 43:50

So you know that that you're prepared to put yourself, you know, you didn't necessarily get what you wanted, but yeah, instead of just sitting back feeling sorry for yourself and waiting, you went out and got a different job and worked worked. To earn money to make sure that you could survive and pay your pills, which is admirable.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Yeah, that is admirable.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

You know, um, and I then I think who wouldn't want to employ Toddamu?

SPEAKER_00 44:10

I mean, we wouldn't.

SPEAKER_05 44:11

Exactly. Exactly. Listen, I think what we're gonna do, Toddamu, we're gonna turn this into a bit of a game, we're gonna have a live tracker on um on the Facilities Management Exchange. And every time we record a podcast, we're gonna give a Todomu update. And that update is gonna be how many interviews Toddemu has had since the last podcast. Okay, until we get you a job. So we're gonna keep you fresh in everybody's minds, and we're gonna do everything we can um to get you gamefully employed in our fantastic industry. Um, and I am shocked that none of you have got her already. So come on, um, we'll get this sorted out for you. It might be this guy here.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Okay, yeah. I think I'm gonna hook up. I'm going to hold on to a wing.

SPEAKER_05 44:51

It might well be a very short game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Fingers crossed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:57

I've never met him before. I've got no influence or anything on that. He might be able to help you out. Okay, so um, guys, what advice would you I mean I mean I'm messing around a little bit, but I'm not either, because a lot of people will see this, and I think if if everybody watching this is impressed by you as I am interviewing you, then I would be shocked if you are not in a very good role in this industry in in the next month or so. I really I really would be, would you?

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah, no, I agree. I yeah, that you've got all the skills, you've got the ambition, and you've got the drive, and that that for me are the key skills to have in our industry.

SPEAKER_05 45:30

Without a doubt, Bernard, do you agree?

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Yes, I agree with that. Um, and and once again, uh I've always advocated networking. It yeah, it brought me it brought me, you know, literally that scenario where someone I got chatting to someone and uh the job never got advertised. I called in for a couple of interviews and then bang, I've got the job purely through talking to someone at an event.

SPEAKER_06 45:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

I I'm not pretending that happens that often, but it does happen. Um and it it's a it's a hell of a lot easier than uh sending out 100 CVs.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

Oh yeah, yeah. Without I mean and I I have to agree with Bernard that. I mean, I'm I'm a firm believer in it's not what you know, it's who you know. Okay, but in the nicest possible way, it's not it's not the case of me dad's giving me a job down. You know, it's not that kind of thing. It's if you if you see people enough and they get to know you and then they start to trust you, um, then I I think that they're then more than like more likely to have either a role for you or to recommend that somebody has a conversation with you about a role. Um so as you build that network and as that network expands, um, those people help you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

I I think the key point to networking is it's exposure, isn't it? It's not just around because I I think I I was relatively new to networking only a couple of years ago. Um, but for me, what it really did was expose me to different conversations in the industry. So when I went then for jobs or had other conversations, I knew a little bit more than somebody else because I'd had those conversations prior. And I think that that's a really valuable thing about networking as well.

SPEAKER_05 47:05

Well, yeah, I think that's really true. It takes you on that learning journey as well. Because, like you, if you you you'll speak to 10 people, Todd and Moo, right, about the same subject, and they'll all have 10 different um alternatives in relation to that subject, or 10 different ways of doing things, and none of none of none of those ways are wrong, and none of them are particularly right either. It's just that people have learned how to do things different ways over time, and the more tools you have to resolve a problem, the better. So the more people you speak to, the more times you hear the same story, or so on and so forth, then the better you become, I think.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

I I I always remember when I was early into my FM career in in terms of management, one of one of my kind of uh managers at the time said, one of the most important things you'll have as an FM is your phone book. Yeah. And there is never been a true word said that I know in my phone book I've got maybe 20 people that I know I can phone up at most of the time of the day and say, I've got this problem, what should I do? And and that's the other nice thing about our industry. Actually, very true, that it's a really supportive network of people who know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_05 48:09

The com the camaraderie. That's what I like about it, it's the people element um and how people rally together. I mean, we Bernard, I've known you a long time. It's a long time now, actually. It is, it is four or five years. Wayne, I've known you four or five years. Um, Todd and Who just met, but I'm sure we'll know each other four or five years. Absolutely. Hopefully, even longer. Yeah. Um, as you get a great big job somewhere in facilities management, maybe managing the Gherkin or what about 22 Bishops Gate. Thanks to that.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Oh nice. 22 bishops gate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:36

When you get that, let me know if you need a cleaner.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

He's not very good for a mop, ear at least.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

I'm joking, I'm joking. But it is true, it is true. You know, like you know, when we launched this, um when we launched the facilities management exchange, um, I was very reliant on my network um to to give it credence, um, to buy into what we were trying to achieve um and to come in on as guests. And everybody so far that has been on the episode, apart from a few people such as yourself and other people, are people that I have I know or I've worked with over the last 15 years of my career. So we would never have been able to launch this vehicle without my phone book, in essence, you know. And Wayne was here for episode one. Um okay, yeah, so yeah, so great. So, Bernard, what what what are your plans um over the next couple of years? Obviously, your business is doing well, continuing to do the same thing, or have you got any any irons in the fire, anything new going on?

SPEAKER_03 49:30

Pretty much uh continuing uh mainly um procurement-wise. Yeah. Uh, but I do same thing, I get c I get calls from different people. So I had one recently where uh quite possibly they're gonna ask me to go in and review their um cleaning and security.

SPEAKER_05 49:49

I know a cleaner.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Yeah, I think honestly, it's really good as well. And and I'm always I'm always, you know, I'm always willing to uh have a look at something like that and say, yeah, I'll uh I'll have a go at this because uh one of the things I've I've endeavoured since 20 years now, I've been um uh an FM consultant, and one of the things I quite like doing is going into different uh sectors, different different areas, and perhaps doing something different and keeping my hand a little bit in so that I'm not I'm not just going in and advising all the time. Uh sometimes I might be doing a bit of hands-on as well.

SPEAKER_05 50:26

Which is Yeah, because you get you get involved in lots of disciplines across the FM sphere, really, don't you? You you're not just isolated to the One Piece, you're you're you're you're across end users, service partners, kind of everything really, yeah in the entire space, which is and that's really that evolves regularly.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

So so in the last year I've worked with uh service providers and I've also worked with end users. Yeah. And uh I can I can very easily advise on on both because I'm saying well this is what this is what I would do if I was over there at the moment, and this is what I do when I'm sat on the other side of the table.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

Yeah, that must be quite weird, actually.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

So percha poach a turn gamekeeper type uh scenario rather than being saying, well, I'm just an expert who always sits in this lane here, which I think eventually is is is not not so good, really. I think it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_05 51:15

No, so it gives quite a unique unique insight, then yeah, it's probably the best way to explain it. Okay, Wayne, what about yourself? What's what's what's the plans for the future? Moving to Florida, buying a castle with the mic and the big mouse?

SPEAKER_01 51:27

I mean, why not? Um no, so yeah, no, that my focus for kind of the the immediate future is is finalising our delivery of our new FM strategy at DB. Right. Um so yeah, spending a bit of time doing that, building a team, really embedding that team and embedding our new strategy and philosophy. Yeah. Um so yeah, I I've always had a passion around going into businesses and and working how we deliver better FM and that's what we're doing at DB Cargo. So it's exciting times, really. Yeah. Um but yeah, like like Bernard said, right? So I I came from service side, went on to client side. I find it in in uh such a powerful tool that I can understand how that relationship works.

SPEAKER_05 52:07

Um and that I think because you've worked within the managing agent world, you've also worked um end user, you yeah, so very similar kind of right. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Yeah, so so yeah, I think yeah, so yeah, that that's the immediate plans, and then yeah, going from there, who knows?

SPEAKER_05 52:20

You're gonna keep FME?

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Yeah, always gonna keep an FM heart.

SPEAKER_05 52:24

Yeah, good man. Todd, but what about yourself? What's your plans?

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Uh so number one, I'm going back to dust my CV and um, you know, let's see how we can get this FM role. And um, you know, um I I love this new role that I'm in. Yeah, I do have transferable skills as I mentioned, and um yeah, so I'm actually looking forward to growing in the in my current role as well. And um, and if I do when I do find um the FM role, I do have skills I can transfer and then you know. Of course you do. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:59

Well, look, we're we will support you anywhere we can, Totamou. Um you know, if anybody reaches out to us about this episode, we'll put them in front of you.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 53:06

Um, but also as well, if once you've dusted off that CV, yeah, if you want to email a copy to us, then we'll happily share that with people that we know. Right because you never know um what what might come up. And you know, as Wayne said, that black book that we have can sometimes be very beneficial, if that makes sense. So absolutely you've got three people here that know a lot of people, so if we can't sort you out, we can.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, and these are anyway.

SPEAKER_05 53:28

You're all right because he's got a job for you.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Yeah, and I'm no more in the student visa, so yeah, you can take the chance on me.

SPEAKER_05 53:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, that kind of brings us to the end, guys. How have you found it?

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 53:42

Have you enjoyed it? Yeah, yeah. You had a good time? Love love a good bit of FM in. Yeah, you do love a bit of FM in, don't we? What's your one takeaway from today's episode, Brad?

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Um, I I think we need to do more as an industry to help those new people who want to get into the industry. We we talk all the time about attracting new talent, yeah, but it seems we're not making it easy enough for new talent to come in. Bernard, what's your one takeaway?

SPEAKER_03 54:07

I echo those comments. We need to do more. And uh we we need to do more to promote FM. But yeah, it's still that scenario where you tell someone you work in FM and they look at you blankly and they're not quite sure what it what that means.

SPEAKER_05 54:21

Yeah, and I think you know, people I think platforms like this we're trying hard to do that as well, you know, and and trying to offer that support. Todamou, what's your one learning from today's podcast?

SPEAKER_00 54:30

There is still more to be done. I agree. A lot more to be done. I agree. Yeah, a lot more awareness for the young people, the freshblood, um, people looking to come into the industry, and also a lot more work for people who have been in the industry but in another in a different geographical area, and then you know, people like me, and then who have moved into a new environment and open to transition into the industry, but they are finding it difficult. So, yeah, there's still a lot more work to be done to help, you know, people like me transition back into the um industry they know, the industry they they want to continue working, and you know, the industry they love. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

Yeah, without a doubt. And look, we will we will help you anywhere we can. And I think I I do believe we can help you. I I believe that there'll be someone that watches this podcast. Hopefully, that that looks at it and goes, I'd I well at least have a conversation with you, and then it becomes it becomes their um conversation at the end.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Yeah, I mean, if anything, I I was um I was happy to be back, you know, to talk about to be in the FM space, maybe not the space, but we you know, people who have FM backgrounds and we've got office curtains, you know, air conditioning, brick toilets, toilets, yeah, there's plenty of FM going on around here. Yeah, happy to be here.

SPEAKER_05 55:49

Okay, well, listen, thank you very much, guys. Um, absolutely fantastic episode. I have to be honest, I think we actually uncovered a real issue in the industry that that perhaps nobody's really sat down and had a conversation about before, which I th I find quite interesting. Um, but that's the whole point of the facilities management exchange. Um, to find these issues, thrash them out, and then see whether or not we can help. So thank you, Bernard. Thank you, Toddamu, and thank you, Wayne. It's been a pleasure. All right, guys, um, that brings us to the end of another episode. Um, and I think you'll agree um that that Toddomu is quite clearly um and would be an asset to any organisation out there that's looking to accrue within that facilities management space. Um, we want to support Todamu as much as we can. So if you want to meet her, um, if you want to reach out to her, then please feel free to reach out to us and we will put you guys together and you can have a conversation and then hopefully something fantastic happens. But that's the end of episode 10, not nine. Uh as ever, if you can't be good, be bad. Bye-bye.